Going Through It

Going Through It Season 2 Episode 14 Tamron Hall Transcript

Tracy Clayton: This is Going Through It, a show about women who found themselves in situations where they said, mmmm? No. And they made a decision to make a change in turn something around. I'm your host, Tracy Clayton. So I wanted to share a very special conversation that I was fortunate enough to have with Tamron Hall at Vulture Fest in sunny, sunny Los Angeles. It was a fantastic show and a fantastic time. But since it was a live show, it might sound a little different from the other episodes you've heard so far. So if in the middle of the episode of the conversation, you hear somebody stand up and yell something like, "Oh my God, I can't believe it's Tracy. I love her so much!" it's because it was a live show. And because it was probably my mom. And she's finally proud of me. Yay! Y'all already know this season of Going Through It has been about, oh uh-uh moments. And guess who has had more of those than anyone I know? Ms. Tamron Hall. She has had moments that you are probably familiar with, like when she got fired from the Today Show because they wanted to give an hour to Megyn Kelly instead for some reason. And there was that moment that she bounced back with her very own daytime talk show. But there's also moments that you may not know very much about, like when she packed up her entire life to move to Philadelphia. Something that I, too, have done. And we also talk about some lesser known moments like the extremely pivotal and heartbreaking murder of her sister, which led Tamron to her activism work to bring awareness to those affected by domestic violence. It was a wonderful, dynamic, full conversation. And I hope you enjoy Tamron Hall's gems and insight as much as I did. This is going through.

Tracy: Hi. Hello. Welcome. My name is Tracy Clayton and I am the host of Season two of MailChimps podcast, Going Through It. And season two is pretty much about women, Black women in particular, who were in a situation and they were just like, uh-uh no, I'm not doing this. We're done. Cut it off. And they decide to do something different. Has anybody been through it in this audience, can I get a Amen?

Audience: [laughter] [clapping]

Tracy: [laughs] That was a hearty chuckle. Somebody's been through a lot. [laughs] Our guest today is someone that I'm sure that, you know. She is the host of approximately 1000 news shows and daytime TV shows, including The Big Picture, News Nation with Tamron Hall and Deadline: Crime with Tamron Hall, which is very close to my heart as a true crime obsessed person. She was also the first Black woman anchor of the Today Show and currently hosts the Tamron Hall Show, which just debuted this season. Ladies and gentlemen, please help me to welcome Ms. Tamron Hall.

Audience: [cheering]

Tamron Hall: That is some good acting.

Tracy: Yeah! Y'all had something to prove with that one. So as I said before, Going Through It is a show about Black women who have found themselves in a, in a pickle. An example for me in my life, years and years and years ago, I was living in Philadelphia. We'll talk about that. And I was dating this dude and I was having a tough time. And I was like, you know, I'm thinking about going to therapy. Do you think that I would be weak if I did that? And he was like, yeah. And for a second I was like, oh no, no therapy. But then I was like, wait a minute. You should also go get some therapy. [laughter] So, Ms. Tamron.

Tamron: Yes.

Tracy: I would love to begin with a moment like that for you.

Tamron: Okay.

Tracy: And I want to start with this moment up top because I feel like it's a bit of an elephant in the room and I really want to get into the meat of who Tamron Hall is.

Tamron: Okay.

Tracy: Okay?

Tamron: All right.

Tracy: So you were the first Black woman co-anchor on Today. And then you weren't anymore.

Tamron: It didn't happen that magically, but yes. [laughs]

Tracy: [laughs] Can you give us a brief synopsis of what happened?

Tamron: I was fired. That's it.

Tracy: That's good and brief. All right.

Tamron: That is how it happens.

Tracy: As someone who has studied journalism and has been in the field for a good chunk of time.

Tamron: Me or you? [laughs]

Tracy: You. I've done nothing for a good chunk of time. They found me off the street a couple of days ago. I don't know I got here.

Tamron: [crosstalk] They found you in, in Brooklyn. [laughs]

Tracy: [laughs] Right. How did that feel? Like, I mean, you're a journalist, a TV journalist.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: And then it's taken away from you for whatever reason. What was that first thought?

Tamron: [crosstalk] Oh there was a specific reason why.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Oh, what was the reason?

Tamron: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, I won't sugar coat it. It was a specific reason.

Tracy: Okay.

Tamron: They wanted something that wasn't me. Because our ratings were great, which had been publicized. The last week I was there, had done all three hours of the Today Show, 45 minutes later, hosted a full hour of news and politics on MSNBC, ran home, change clothes, ate food, came back and filled in for Lester Holt for the week. So clearly my work ethic was there.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: That week, the ratings in all of those shows were great. So, you know, you just have to do, as I said, at that point in any of our lives -- and in fact, when you were talking about the subject matter, even though this conversation is related to women of color, the person who applauded the most was a white man with a beard.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah.

Tamron: And unless he has a Black woman hiding in him, [laughter] which we all do, you know, it's a relatable topic. And so I said that day at some point in all of our lives, the goalpost keeps getting moved to the point it's invisible.

Tracy: Mm-hmm.

Tamron: And I am not into being Charlie Brown to anyone's Lucy. So I wasn't going to keep kicking the football.

Tracy: Was that a difficult decision for you to make?

Tamron: No.

Tracy: No.

Tamron: Absolutely not. My father had died 10 years prior. My father was the only dad -- the dad that God meant for me to have. I wasn't raised by my biological father. I was raised by my step father. And he was like the most Black Panther dad. You know, we were like the -- before Black Panther was a film, we would start -- line up Wakanda. [laughs] You know, it's like in our house. And so he was a very proud, phenomenal dad. He was in the army his entire life. Had actually joined at age 14 and lied and said that he was older. And my dad was the leader of our family. And 10 years prior, he had passed away. You know, if that had happened at the time that the -- leaving the Today Show and then loss of my dad, I would not have been able to leave. I Because at the time my whole family was broken. We were lost. My mother's anchor was gone. So fast forward 10 years later, I'm in a job where I'm doing everything that I can to prove my value because I know that the catchphrase is, "know your value." I knew my value because as a Black woman, you constantly have to know your value.

Tracy: [crosstalk] And you have to remind yourself of that everyday.

Tamron: [crosstalk] And you have to remind yourself. So it's like a mantra. You, you wake up, your alarm clock goes off, you go, I'm a Black woman, I know my value. [laughter] It's like -- And so it wasn't that I did not know my value. It’s others did not know my value, which was okay. But I had to make a decision. And I related to my father because my mother had finally realized that she could move on with her life. Her big moment. I was in a position where I'd save some money, which was not something that I was inclined to do. And so I could make this decision. But the biggest thing which relates to the topics that you discussed, my back was against the wall. So it was the wall or what?

Tracy: Mmm.

Tamron: So it was an easy decision because there was no other decision to make.

Tracy: I see, I see. A thing that always strikes me about news and the people who read us the news is how tight you have to be when it comes to emotion. You know, like I cry all the time.

Tamron: I do, too. I mean, listen, I do a crime show. You don't --.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: It's it's it's tough. You -- a lot of therapy after covering things that I've covered. Are you asking me, did I cry? Absolutely. But I did not cry over the job. No.

Tracy: What did you cry over?

Tamron: Frustration, like anybody else. I've been doing this 25 years. I was 47 at the time. I've been on TV since I was 18 and I've worked since I was 14. I'm unemployed. So you're thinking, what is my what's next? You know, I did not have a 69 million dollar contract. No shade to anybody does. And if you do, give me a loan. [laughter]

Tracy: Listen.

Tamron: But I didn't have that.

Tracy: Let me get five dollars too.

Tamron: I did not have that. And so it's the reality of life. It's also my what's next? as an older woman, you know. When I had my son six months ago and People Magazine put on the cover "48, Miracle Baby," I didn't know I was that old. Until they made me a lab rat straight in front of everybody. [laughter] I was like, damn! And so --

Tamron: [crosstalk] We're definitely gonna talk about that later.

Tamron: I'm really old. So because in my mind, I'm still 20-something year old Tamron who started out reporting. And now I went from being the youngest reporter in the newsroom to the oldest.

Tracy: Uh huh.

Tamron: And now the oldest unemployed. And when you are a Black woman in the news, first of all, when you're a woman in the news, you already know that there are limited spaces. Now, take the five white female spaces and look how many women of color there are. Zero. Asian, maybe one. Latino in two? Gayle King takes up all of them. [laughter]

Tracy: Yeah. Shout out to Gayle.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Then onto you and you're like, I'm the other Gayle King. [laughter] You know, and so the spaces are limited. Don Lemon is the only Black host of a primetime cable news show in America.

Tracy: Period. Like --.

Tamron: After 7pm, you see no hosts of color --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] How did I not realize that?

Tamron: [crosstalk] On any cable news station.

Tracy: What do you make of that? Do you think that that's going to change anytime soon?

Tamron: If I were hiring, yes. And not based on you know, I -- one of the most hurtful things that I've ever been called, when I joined the national news conversation as a journalist eleven years ago, someone wrote -- because I was hired right after the -- this Don Imus scandal. Don Imus is a famous radio personality. And he made a disparaging comment about the Rutgers University basketball team. That was -- Google it, if you don't know it. It's pretty stunning. [laughter] But I was already in talks to join MSNBC and NBC, which people didn't know. It wasn't public. Don Imus was let go. And then I was hired after he'd made a disparaging remark about African-American women. People thought my hiring was tied to that. And I remember instantly being worried about it because I know people make generalizations. And then I joined cable news right around the same time Twitter started. So 2008. And I read Token Hall.

Tracy: Ohhh.

Tamron: And it was devastating because --.

Tracy: What was your first thought when you read that?

Tamron: [laughs]

Tracy: We're all adults. It's okay. You can say.

Tamron: Fuck 'em. [laughter] I was like, I was like what?

Tracy: Love it. Yeah.

Tamron: Come on. But I was hurt. I'd work since I was 14. I had been a journalist since I was 18. And to have someone assign a label of tokenism to me without being rational was very, very hurtful. So if I use profanity in articulating how I felt, it is within the bounds. Because until you have someone call you a token, or any name for that matter, when you know you've put in the work. So suddenly you give feedback and you're the B-word. Or you're this -- it doesn't feel good. So your reaction is your reaction. They tell you, people can't tell you how to feel. That's how I felt.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: Knowing that I'd work very hard to be there. But in this business, to your point, whether or not it's going to change. Look at this room. I'm able to see I'm here, two Black women talking to an audience that is multi-racial. So, you know, 20 years ago, maybe this audience would have been all African-American. But the commonality of people are people, which is the premise of my talk show, my daytime talk show -- plug -- [laughter] is that, you know, we actually have more in common than we have different. And so for me, will it change? It will change because when I look out at a room like this or I look at you and we can be unapologetic Black women, we can have this conversation and the engagement from a diverse audience listening to our journey and relating to it. Clearly, they're relating to the feeling of it. So I think that when more people say, wait a minute. I don't feel right looking at all of these stations and not seeing more women, more people of color, more Asian journalists, what is going on here? Then I think it will change and there -- and it will.

Tracy: I think it will, too.

Tamron: Well it has to.

Tracy: Yeah. The only constant in the world, they say, is change.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Change.

Tracy: So this sounds like a very tumultuous field that you work in. And to bring it back to this particular moment, I remember reading that during this time you said you only seek advice from God and your mama.

Tamron: 100 percent.

Tracy: What did God say? What did your mama say? And did they agree? [laughter]

Tamron: God said, F-'em. No I'm kidding. [laughter]. Ah ha.

Tracy: That's what my God would say.

Tamron: No. My mother said, you can do bad by yourself. And God said, bet on yourself. And so for me, you know, I went home. It was a Tuesday. And I jokingly say that day there's a picture of me and I'm in a black and white Proenza Schouler jacket and some Louis Vuitton boots.

Tracy: Okay, stun 'em.

Tamron: And I thought, how fly do I look outside? But I was broken inside. Or someone thought they had broken me. And I went home and I prayed. And I became -- what I always tell everyone I have done in crisis, I have done in that moment of pivot, that big moment, the aha moment, is look in the mirror and find your 7-year-old self. Your 7-year-old self, to me, is the most powerful self that I own.

Tracy: Why is that?

Tamron: Because she is the one who had -- didn't have permission to say F-it but lived it that way. She is not made up. No fake eyelashes. No people encouraging her.

Tracy: [crosstalk] No Louis Vuittons.

Tamron: No Louis Vuitton. No nothing. Your 7-year-old self, I get in the mirror and I stare and I look for her cause she's the kid no one bet on, single mom from a tiny town, Luling, Texas. My grandfather was a sharecropper. We would go to my grandfather's job to greet him. It was gas station where he sold barbecue, eventually, in the back of a gas station. And you'd walk through and say hi to Mr. Chambers, the man who owned it. And then go through the aisles and in the back with a butcher's apron on with my grandfather. So his grandchild was not supposed to be on the Today Show.

Tracy: Right.

Tamron: She's not supposed to be here in a room where it's happening. She was supposed to be there. I have a rule. I don't like you if you don't like where you're from.

Tracy: Ooh! I like that.

Tamron: That means you don't have to stay there. But I want you to like where you're from. So 7-year-old Tamron liked walking to the back and greeting her grandfather, who was chopping meat to throw on a pit to feed other families. More food than he had to feed his own. And that's where I pull from. And I -- it's the advice I give the kids I mentor. Look for your7-year-old self, even if you're 19, 20, search for your 7-year-old self. That person has the answer you're looking for.

Tracy: The inner child is real. I learned that in therapy.

Tamron: [crosstalk] It is. It's real.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Absolutely.

Tamron: It's real.

Tracy: So I take it that your advice to 7-year-old Tamron would be, Bet on yourself.

Tamron: [crosstalk] 100 percent.

Tracy: [crosstalk] What does this mean?

Tamron: At some point, you know, life requires you to pivot, whether it's a relationship with somebody you don't want to be with or they don't want to be with you. The pivot is always going to come. Are you ready for it? And many times you see it. So when I left my prior job, I saw it coming. Now you're inclined to fight for your job or fight for the relationship because you want it. You're there. You didn't just come there for temporary reasons. But the pivot is coming and you see it. And you're like damn, I don't want to face it. How do I -- okay, I'm going to negotiate with it. Listen, you want me to change? All right. What do you want to do? You want me to do this? You want me to be this person. Okay, I don't like my hair straight, but I'll straighten it for you. What do you need me to do? So you start negotiating with the other side.

Tracy: Right.

Tamron: What? Okay. I still want to work here. What do I -- okay. I will now answer every phone call. I'll show up for everything that they say because I hope they eventually see what I bring to the table. I hope the person I'm in a relationship eventually sees what I bring to the table. The pivot is a stalker. It keeps coming. It keeps coming.

Tracy: Will not leave you alone.

Tamron: And at some point it makes you act. Here's the deal. In anything you do in your life, you will have to pivot, anticipate it, negotiate with it, but don't run from it. And that's something that came to me -- I don't know if I've ever been told this story publicly -- this is a horrible reoccurring dream I had. But --.

Tracy: It's okay, no one will tell outside of this room. [laughter].

Tamron: Tweeted under the name Joanne Read, said this. [laughter] She's my friend. I kept having this dream that -- this is so weird. I was a fish. It was in the ocean. And these sharks were coming at me. And I had a stick behind me. And the sharks keep coming. This -- I swear I've never told this. And please don't think I'm nuts. But the shark keeps hiding behind a weed. And I'm like, I can see you. Please stop. The shark then hides behind coral. I'm like, I can see you. Please stop. And the shark keeps coming and it keeps coming. I'm like, plea -- and I try to negotiate. And at some point, as I pull my little fin -this is, swear to God -- I pull this little fin, it's a sword and I kill the shark.

Tracy: [crosstalk] What an amazing occuring dream to have.

Tamron: [crosstalk] It's insane. And I kept saying, please stop. And then there's this scene and it's all red. And then it clears up. And I had that dream, a recurring dream up until the day I left my old job.

Tracy: Wow. You believe in omens and signs and stuff?

Tamron: I did after that. [laughter]

Tracy: That's fantastic. One of my only recurring dreams is that I was a cupcake.

Tamron: What flavor?

Tracy: And --.

Tamron: If you say anything other than chocolate. I'm walking away.

Tracy: It was not chocolate. I sorry. [laughter]

Tamron: Dammit.

Tracy: Well, thanks, ladies and gentlemen. It's been great.

Tamron: And that -- I already told Tracy, I've never spoken to a human being for 60 minutes in my life.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I know!

Tamron: [crosstalk] So this is genius.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I already fucked it up.

Tamron: So you were a cupcake.

Tracy: I was a cupcake. And I -- my cousin that had to eat me for some reason.

Tamron: Oh.

Tracy: And I just remember crying and apologizing to him, even though I was the one being eaten. And everytime I would have this dream, I would wake up like in tears.

Tamron: Really. What did you think that means?

Tracy: That I'm -- I don't know. Something's wrong somewhere. I don't know. [laughter] I mean, what else could it mean?

Tamron: [crosstalk] Oh what does it -- well that probably like when you have the dreams about losing your teeth, they say it's vulnerability.

Tracy: Oh! I have that all the time.

Tamron: Like I have a book on dreams and it talks about what our dreams mean. So it like the teeth coming, your -- that's vulnerability. The falling -- like these things that we all have in common, these common theme dreams often all mean something with vulnerability or feeling helpless. Like the whole naked in the room you wake up.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: Those are all actually studied dreams. And it's something about vulnerability, which is what we said women, especially Black women --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah.

Tamron: Have a difficult time sharing in these workspaces because --.

Tracy: Yeah. It tracks.

Tamron: You do feel like the underdog. Yeah. Interesting.

Tracy: Absolutely. Well, I'm glad I --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] We unpacked that therapy session. [laughter]

Tracy: [crosstalk] Thank you!

Tamron: [crosstalk] Leave a hundred dollars at the door. You're welcome.

Tracy: [laughs] I can save a little bit of money on next week. So.

Tamron: Yes.

Tracy: To go back to this moment and then we're going to transition from that, I promise. After you had made your decision not to renew your contract, what was it like to still have to go to work until the moment that you did not have to go anymore?

Tamron: I didn't.

Tracy: Oh!

Tamron: No. They asked me not to come back.

Tracy: Oh.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: I did not realize that.

Tamron: Oh, it's a cold blooded business. [laughs].

Tracy: How did that --.

Audience: Oh, I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. And a lot of people were quite upset about that. But I knew I would always have a chance to say hello again.

Tracy: Mmm, I love that.

Tamron: And a two and a half years later, I was fortunate to partner with Disney and ABC. And on September 9, 2019, I walked out and said hello again.

Tracy: See, I love this story, but it all sounds so just like beautiful and, like, tied up with a red ribbon.

Tamron: No, it's not a Disney ending. I don't fancy myself a sugar coating kind of person. That's how it happened.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: Said, I have survived far more painful things. My grandfather was a sharecropper with a second grade education. I lost a TV job. Which do you think is harder?

Tracy: In in that moment, was that a comfort or like did it take some time to get to that point? [crosstalk] Like, okay let me calm down, let me settle down.

Tamron: [crosstalk] It didn't. I would, I would give my friends permission to talk to you on record, I judged them two ways. People who called me who were not friends, who were like, oh my God. And other people who call me and said, I know you got something next.

Tracy: Mmmm.

Tamron: And honestly, being 47, maybe if this had happened when I was 22, 25, 27, 37, I'm 47. And I was not interested in throwing myself a pity party because I had done nothing wrong. And so it's not a Disney ending -- my partner in my ABC show. It's not a Disney ending. It's at some point in your life, you gotta stop running because I wasn't defeated. What was I going to be sad, mad, afraid of? I was worried because you want to be able to pay your bills. But I was financially okay. My mother was okay --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Yeah but like you didn't feel like, disrespected? Like, how dare they treat me this way.

Tracy: [crosstalk] No one can take your respect unless you give it to them. They never own my respect.

Audience: Yeah! [clapping]

Tamron: No. It's like when people say, He was emasculated. Did he get -- what?

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: No one can take my respect. I've never been on my knees. [laughs]

Tracy: How does that sentence end? [laughs] Where are we going?

Tamron: Other than with my husband.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Oooh!

Tamron: [crosstalk] Okay, I don't know. No. Are you kidding me? No, you know -- I don't -- I don't like the notion of telling people that someone disrespected you. What does that mean?

Tracy: They talk to you in a way that was unacceptable to you.

And I said it's unacceptable. Whether I could walk from the door or not, you know, the difference in having a disagreement, but the notion that someone can disrespect you, no they can't. My respect is not determined by what you say to me, by how you treat me. My respect is what I carry in my heart. It's who I see. It's my 7-year-old me. And I don't say that as some kind of a Jan Lewan, Maya Angelou moment [laughter] because I wish I was as amazing as either of them. I say it because I come from nothing. Nothing. So what are you going to take from me?

Tracy: What do you wish people knew about this time in your life? If anything.

Tamron: [crosstalk] They know. Oh, they know when they turn it on.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: They know she kept fighting. And I'm trying to do a show every day that's fun, that's enlightening, that's inspirational. That's, you know, conversations that you're having every day. I want people, no matter who they are, to watch the show and see themselves in some capacity. Or like I had Rick Ross on the other day. And I --.

Audience: [clapping].

Tamron: Yes.

Tracy: Shout out to Rick Ross. [laughs]

Tamron: Yes. And, you know, and -- there were some people who, you know, because I have a nationally syndicated show. So you have a show that's in New York and then it's in a tiny town. And so I'm thinking, oh Lord. Somebody's in Boise's is going to be like, who is Rick Ross? Well, guess what? Rick Ross is a recovering addict. He was addicted to Cizre. Said that right.

Tracy: You did.

Tamron: He's a guy who faced a crossroad in his life. His dad was actually -- both of his parents, very educated. But the streets called him into a decision that he made that he didn't have to make. White, Black, hip hop, country, whatever. Redemption is relatable. Struggles are relatable. Whether it is an addiction to opioids, alcohol, a relationship, whatever it is, these things are relatable. And Rick Ross ended up being one of our highest rated shows.

Tracy: Wow.

Tamron: Because when you show humanity doesn't matter the voice. And so our goal with a Rick Ross or someone that everyone thinks they might identify with, whomever that is, is to have a conversation. Because the minute we're able to talk, you're able to relate to people. So when people wonder where I am now, if you turn it on, I'm where I'm supposed to be.

Tracy: Mmm. That reminds me of a quote that I read in prepping for this episode. And I remember something to the effect of once -- you saying, once you take off your mask and I take off my mask, we can have a conversation. What is behind your mask?

Tamron: Oh, currently, I think that I right now, as I said, have a six month old and I'm juggling this show and things are going very well. I probably mask how hard it is. Because like flying here to come for this trip, having my son now six months old, in my mind, I'm thinking, does he notice? Is he aware now? Oh, my gosh. Am I supposed to be just a stay at home mom at this point? You know. Wait a minute. Is it all worth it? Am I putting myself -- you know, so you -- so I try not to talk about that as much because I am very, very, very, very fortunate to have a nanny. I'm blessed to have a mother who's healthy, who's with my son right now.

Tracy: Shout out to grandmas.

Tamron: Hi. Shout out.

Audience: Woo! [clapping].

Tamron: But I live in a socioeconomically diverse neighborhood. And I know that a few blocks from me as a 15 year old doing it completely by herself with no love, with no support. And here I am a few blocks over nationally syndicated talk show, a nanny, a husband, a mom. And so I feel guilty, ever feeling defeated. Or ever having a weak moment, which I have a lot. I got on the plane to come here on as much as I adore you and wanted to talk to you guys and hang out and drink champagne, I'd much rather be in my bed with no makeup on with Moses in his onesie, which is so dope. [laughter] And just chillin. And I actually tweeted out something today, his bottle was turned up and I was like last year turned up meant something different. [laughter] So I think my mask right now is to try and not show how hard it is because I feel guilty saying it's hard.

Tracy: Hmm. I'm sorry. I'm just processing. I'm like, what's behind my mask? I don't know.

Tamron: Yeah, what is?

Tracy: Probably guilt and shame over things that I shouldn't similarly feel like guilt and shame for. For being too anxious, for being too depressed, for not saying this when I should have and etc. Like, I feel like I have to keep like a brave face on all the time.

Tamron: I feel that way. But, you know, and I wonder sometimes is that unique to women, is that unique to Black women?

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: But somebody that I've had in my life, my hairstylist, Johnny Wright. He's in the audience. Johnny, I met when he was 18. It was -- I was hosting an event in Chicago. I was a local news anchor. And he came over to me and he's like, I was in my mom's basement doing hair. And I told her, I want to do that lady on the news. And I just happen to be right here with you right now. And I really want to do your hair. And I said, if you mess my hair up, you'll never do hair again. [laughter] But the universe conspired for us to meet. And I took a chance and he ended up doing my hair for many years, even came on my local show. Left me, did Michelle Obama's hair for eight years. Created the bang look.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Well, alright!

Tamron: And then -- he's here. And single.

Audience: [laughter] [clapping].

Tracy: Hey! See me after show.

Tamron: And, and then after finishing his work with the First Family, came back and got my show. I tell you that story to say, not to brag on him because I will because he's a part of my life, because I do think you should brag on all of your friends and all the people in your life --.

Tracy: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Big up everybody in your life. But I'll tell you that because this morning he said, it was so weird, Tamara. He said, I woke up and I looked out at the beautiful day and the sun and I had this overwhelming moment of gratitude. And I said, I don't think I do that enough. Because I've been so focused on getting, you know, the right spot with the baby. And my husband and I are new in our marriage. And the show is new. And I said, you know what? You gotta stop to do it.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: And I have to do that more. So.

Tracy: Allegedly, according to my therapist, gratitude actually changes your brain and your brain chemistry.

Tamron: I believe that. I believe that.

Tracy: I do too because she makes a lot of money. [laughter] So I'm just like, you know more than I do about this.

Tamron: Yeah. I -- And I'm gonna look her up. Well, one of the books that I -- I've always subscribed to is called The Path of Light. I received it when I was 18-years-old. I still carried around with me. And it talks about the universe conspiring to give you truly what you want, not what you think you want. So there's, for example, you can be dating someone and you say -- or a job. I really want this job. I really want this job. And you don't get it. And you're like, but I thought I did! And then later you get something else and you're able to look back and say, I really didn't want that.

Tracy: Mmmm.

Tamron: So when I look back at all the job interviews that I went on and I didn't get that. It makes perfect sense now. And over time relationship -- I'm like, I thought I wanted to marry him?

Tracy: Oh my God.

Tamron: He's on Prison Boot Camp on TLC. [laughter] Oh my God. You know and I thought --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] [laughs] Prison Boot Camp.

Tamron: He was the -- the most amazing thing. And I'm like, I dodged a bullet, you know.

Tracy: Mmm. Mhmm.

Tamron: And so, you know, the book's whole premise is that the universe conspires to give us what we truly want. The thing is that we don't always know what we truly want.

Tracy: That's my problem in life.

Tamron: Yeah. That's all of ours.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I'm like, I don't know.

Tamron: You think you know. But like, remember that MTV, you think you know but --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] You have no idea!

Tamron: [crosstalk] You have no idea!

Tracy: Yes! [laughs].

Tamron: It's like that. It's exactly like that. It's exactly like that.

Tracy: Mmm. So it sounds like you've always been ready to say yes to the thing, whatever that thing is. And a thing that I wanted to discuss is your move from Luling, Texas? Am I --.

Tamron: Luling.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Luling.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: Luling. Pardon.

Tamron: [crosstalk] It's okay.

Tracy: From Luling, Texas to Philadelphia.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: I had to move to Philadelphia. Philly was my first big cit. I'm from Louisville, Kentucky, originally. I went to grad school at Temple for two minutes. And I was like, this was a mistake.

Tamron: Ah!

Tracy: I wasn't getting any financial aid. I was studying poetry. Like what --

Tamron: [crosstalk] You should have called me.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I should've.

Tamron: I would've hooked you up.

Tracy: I should've. But I want to talk about that transition from Luling to Philly. You first get to Philly. What was that like? What were your -- what were you feeling? Were you nervous? Were you scared?

Tamron: [crosstalk] I'd never seen anything so tragic in my life.

Tracy: So tragic.

Tamron: Epidemic homelessness.

Tracy: Oh, wow.

Tamron: So this is the 80s. This was crack. This was right as Bill Clinton was running for president. This was the beginning of the notion that crack babies and welfare moms. So every image that you can imagine of Black poverty was not being empathized with, as we are current crisis. It was terrible. And here I am 1528 miles door to door, being driven in my dad's conversion van. We'd had a epic argument because he refused to stop at Graceland because he said Elvis was racist. [laughter] And I said, you have no proof of that. And I was never gonna talk to him again --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] He was, though.

Tamron: Unless he took me to Graceland. But he did not. [laughter] With fried chicken that he'd fried and weird white piece of bread meticulously wrapped up for me, my brother, my mom.

Tracy: I love this.

Tamron: And we drive in and we stop at the corner of Girard Avenue in Broad Street. If you think you know what a hood looks like, you've never seen anything like this at that time. It's beautiful now. Gentrification is something. Pull up to the corner and a man with a sign approaches my -- when we're in a conversion van. 80s. Roll down the window. [laughter] And he says, hi, I'm one of Philadelphia's homeless. Can you help me? My brother was about 8. He peeks out and it's like a story. Like we're talking Disney, this is the counter. And so my mom's like, I don't have anything, why? Rolls the window back up because I don't know why she rolled it down. We proceed to go to my dorm. For four years my brother said, How's Artie? Have you seen him?

Tracy: Awww.

Tamron: Because it was such a foreign thing.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: Cus he or I'd never seen anything like that. A man on the street with a sign with no shoes, begging for food. You don't see this at the time. Now, you go to any rural town, you will see that now. But then you didn't. Because in the smaller town, surely you have a cousin, you got somebody that will take you in.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: So that was something we'd never seen before. My dorm was 15 blocks from the main campus because I'd had applied late. So I would have to take a SEPTA train or the bus, which we didn't have subways where I'm from. And use certain -- bus? It's like somebody had a car --.

Tracy: What's a bus? [laughter]

Tamron: Even if it was a hooptie, somebody could pick you up. I'm on mass transit. Every morning, my political science class was 8:45 and I'm on with the real working class.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: When we say today, white working class, I'm on with working class. There's no distinction. It's people working two and three jobs. Single moms. And it gave me a great view of life and gave me a dose of reality from the poverty of rural to poverty of big city. It made me who I am today, part of the fiber of who I am today. But it was a culture shock. When people think that -- I remember being a reporter and they put me on the gang beat in one of my first jobs. And I was like --.

Tracy: Naturally.

Tamron: I und -- You do understand, you know more about gangs than I do.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Right, right. [laughs]

Tracy: I was like what? Because see, this white male general manager assume I'm Black, I must know gang life. And I was like --.

Tracy: What? [laughs]

Tamron: Sir if there's a fire tonight, you -- I'm holding my purse too. [laughter] You know, it's like what? But they make these assumptions that Black people are a monolith, that we all have the same cultural journey. And we do because you're Black, you're Black. But you walk in different paths. And to live in the city versus -- I was like, I used to call myself the country mouse. Remember Fivel?

Tracy: [crosstalk] Awww.

Tamron: [crosstalk] I felt like Fivel. I -- they drop me with my little hat. I was like, hey everybody, it's Fivel! You know. [laughter] And so it's this big culture shock. Not only city but ethnically. I am now introduced to Black Muslims. I -- you know --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Different types of Black. Yeah.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Five percenter, different types I'd -- that I'd never seen. So Philadelphia, I say all the time, you know, Texas gave me my heart. Philly gave him my soul because I'd never experienced anything like that. It was enlightening.

Tracy: When you moved to Philly, did you have -- like as we're talking now. I can hear, like, bits of a Southern accent.

Tamron: Yeah, yeah.

Tracy: Was it -- did you have, like, a really thick accent when you moved to Philly?

Tamron: I never had an accent.

Tracy: What?!

Tamron: Never.

Tracy: How to -- how no though?

Tamron: Mean, I was a TV junkie. I grew up on Laverne and Shirley, Happy Days, What's Happening!! The kids on What's Happening!! didn't talk like Gucci Mane [laughs]

Tracy: [crosstalk] I love What's Happening!! by the way. [laughs].

Tamron: It's like -- that's why I always marvel at TV today and part of the journey with my show is that I remember turning on the radio on you could hear the Jackson Five and Elton John on the same station.

Tracy: Uh Huh.

Tamron: You know, I would turn it on the line up. And I adored Henry Winkler's character, the Fonz, as much as I adored Raj and Dee on Happy Days, you know, I mean -- on What's Happening!!

Tracy: [crosstalk] Dee was so shady. I loved her.

Tamron: [crosstalk] And so TV was so blended. And now one of the struggles I have with social media, which I'm on, is that it's the first time in our history that we cage ourselves. We throw away the key and we surround ourselves with prisoners who think exactly like us.

Tracy: Mmm.

Tamron: When I was a kid, you know, I remember when MTV didn't play Michael Jackson. And then all off a sudden they played Michael Jackson and he made MTV.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: My darling friend Prince, that song "Controversy" -- am I Black, am I white, am I straight and I'm gay? I mean, we talked about things and the music talked about things. And I don't want to sound like an old fogey now because don't get me wrong I will -- Da Baby and 'Lil Baby, I have my preference.

Tracy: Eh!

Tamron: But when you would turn it on a radio station, it was this multi-cultural journey that you don't see anymore. It's like you are this, so you're supposed to watch this show. And you are this, so you're supposed to watch that show.

Tracy: Mhmm.

Tamron: And so with our show, we're trying to just say, can you just talk about it? You still may not like it, but talk about it. And that's a big part of that Philadelphia experience as well for me. I mean, you listen to -- I got Teddy Pendergrass. I don't care what age you are, what race, you don't feel it -- [laughter] something wrong with you. You know, and that's how I look at it.

Tracy: So you consider yourself a Southerner? That's a question.

Tamron: [crosstalk] God say so. I have a tattoo of Texas on my body.

Tracy: Oh! And you're -- We're pointing to the hip? Is that where that was?

Tamron: You didn't pay me enough to be here to know that answer. [laughter].

Tracy: Oh. Oh. Pardon. Pardon me.

Tamron: No -- got -- well, LBJ famously said Texas politically is the southwest. So that -- we'll see what happens with that.

Tracy: One of my favorite Southern sayings is --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Is --.

Tracy: Nervous as a polecat and -- [laughs] you're already making a face. Nervous as a polecat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Tamron: I've heard that never.

Tracy: Really? [laughter] That's not how I thought this sentence was gonna end.

Tamron: No.

Tracy: Okay. Do you have a favorite Southern saying? It's okay if you don't.

Tamron: Hotter than fish grease. [laughter]

Tracy: Oh okay.

Tamron: Nervous as a hoe in church. [laughter] You never heard of that --

Tracy: I think it's, sweating like a hoe in church.

Tamron: I don't know.

Tracy: Okay.

Tamron: Neither one applies to anyone I know. [laughter] So I don't know these things.

Tracy: That's just the thing I like to ask Southerners because my production folks --

Tamron: [crosstalk] Oh that's interesting. I never heard the polecat. I'll Google that.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah.

Tamron: Please Google that everyone.

Tracy: Yeah. I --It won't be there. It came from my granny and probably -- I don't know. Okay. I'm looking at the clock. I see that we have less than 15 minutes.

Tamron: Okay.

Tracy: So I'm going to hard pivot to today.

Tamron: Yeah!

Tracy: And your new show.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: I caught it yesterday in the hotel. You're like, you're having a blast. You look so happy. You're just glowing.

Tamron: Thank you.

Tracy: How's it going?

Tamron: It's going great. There are things that I didn't expect that would be challenging, but there are things that have been effortless. But it's a start up. You know, it's a start up. Much like Steve Jobs in the garage, I -- you know. [laughter] I know how these startups go. But it's a start up. But it's most important, liberating.

Tracy: How so?

Tamron: It's mine. You know, so.

Audience: Woo! [clapping].

Tracy: I don't know if this is a obvious question to ask, but I don't know nothing about TV. I do the opposite of TV. I do podcasts.

Tamron: It's the same. Communication. You're talking.

Tracy: True. Only with a podcast, I usually don't have to like, do my hair.

Tamron: [crosstalk] I was going to say the only difference is I have to wear fake eyelashes every day and you don't.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah, this is a --.

Tamron: No that's it.

Tracy: This is a treat for me. I'm really enjoying it.

Tamron: You look beautiful.

Tracy: I will cry. [laughter] Just started my period today. I will cry. Thank you. [laughter].

Tamron: Me too! Twinning!

Tracy: Oh my gosh!

Tamron: No I'm kidding. [laughter] That is completely not true.

Tracy: [laughs] I forgive you for lying on my face.

Tamron: [laughs] But I admitted it.

Tracy: [laughs] You did. I respect that. Talk to me about the differences in formats of TV. So you're doing daytime TV. You're also doing a true crime show and you've got all this journalism --.

Tamron: Yes.

Tracy: News TV experience. Like what's the biggest difference between shows?

Tamron: [crosstalk] It's all same. Honestly. Because a -- the true crime show is in its sixth season. And I've been doing that after the murder of my sister in 2004. My sister was murdered. It is unsolved.

Tracy: I'm so sorry.

Tamron: Thank you. And I knew that she was the victim of domestic violence for many years. The person in her home was the only suspect but never charged. And I happened to be, at the time, talking to the OWN network about starting some kind of show with them. And we couldn't just figure out the right thing. And then I got in a conversation with David Zaslav, who's the head of Discovery Communications, which owns OWN Network. And he asked me about my family. I told him about my sister, just talking. And then, you know, it turned into this crime show. It came and turned into a foundation in honor of my sister. And to support survivors and children and family of domestic violence. So we have that show, which is a part of my soul, but also part of my journey as a journalist. And the daytime talk show's that same thing. It's a different -- you know, I tell people the reason why I love doing the news is that you can't make up live TV. So we try to be topical off the top. And then, for example, next week we're doing love and relationship. When I pitched this show to Disney -- and they've been so supportive. You know, I said daytime TV. So it's supposed to be about people talking. And what's there is very fun. Like, I adore Ellen and, and Kelly Clarkson we're both, you know, live in Burleson, Texas. And there's fun! And there's variety in their court shows. But the first thing that someone asks you when they sit down, are you dating? Are you single? Are you engaged?

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah. I hate it.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Even if they are inappropriate questions they're asking. What's going on?

Tracy: [crosstalk] I hate it so much.

Tamron: And we thought, nobody's talking about relationships. And my friend, Dr. Phil, if you're on his show talking about relationships, one of y'all is in prison. [laughter] So what -- how do we talk about life? How do we talk about our journey? So that's been a big part of our show. The unpacking -- I used Rick Ross is the example -- it's the unpacking. I think the interview we did with him was the best one of the series that he done. Because I was able to look him in his face and say, are you still getting high?

Tracy: Wow.

Tamron: Which nobody had ask him. But, you know, it's one of those things where we're able to talk about it, you know. You know, some people frown upon the Real Housewife franchise. But we have Cynthia Bailey coming on. She's found love in her 50s.

Tracy: They are adorable. And I don't even like love. Like I don't. [laughter].

Tamron: Right!

Tracy: I don't at all, but --

Tamron: And so we're talking about the different layers of love and relationships. I think this is one of the most fascinating conversation. The trend of self-partnering, self-marrying. This whole generation of people, 25 to 45, just deciding I'm good. Tracy Ellis-Ross was on my show and she basically said that she's in love with herself. I'm cool. So that's why she doesn't really like questions about relationships because she's like, I'm good. I wonder if that's sincere. I wonder if people are just giving up.

Tracy: Mmmm.

Tamron: Maybe you can't -- you know, you feel like you can't find the right person. What is it? And as the person who was single until they were 48, meaning publicly single, people made assumptions about me. Is she selfish? Is she gay? What's going on?

Tracy: [crosstalk] Yeah.

Tamron: Da da da da. She's only into her work. These guests that we have this week, all -- one of them married herself, in a sense.

Tracy: I feel like I heard about this. Like there was a ceremony and everything.

Tamron: [crosstalk] It's phenomenal. It's phenomenal. But the other is just that attitude of self-partnering. My mother called it the, I'm good by myself. But are you good by yourself? Are -- do people really secretly want to be in a relationship? And do they say these things just as an armor, as a mask, as it relates to loneliness? So I think it's a phenomenal conversation. So we're looking at love in all -- in some in the wrong places. We actually do have a show on prison love. It's genius.

Tracy: Oh lord.

Tamron: But -- and it's not for an exploitative reason. It's also because, one -- when I was pregnant at my son, one of the shows I was obsessed with was The Last OG. And one of the storylines -- Tracy Morgan -- one of the storylines was this woman who's serially dated prison people. And she said it gave her control over them financially and then they did -- She didn't have to worry about them cheating.

Tracy: Uh huh. [laughter] Also you know where they are, like all the time.

Tamron: Yeah. Yeah. But you -- well, that's true. [laughter]

Tracy: [laughs] He's not in the streets like, I mean, you know?

Tamron: I'm going to use that on my show live.

Tracy: Yeah!

Tamron: You know, our show -- I can't think of another show in daytime that has that range. Friday we had André Leon Talley on. We had unknown designers each day dress me on this show --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I saw this episode, it was great.

Tamron: And they had incredible stories. It -- the finale was a mother of two from Africa living in America now. She's juggling being a nurse, a mom and making clothes in her home. How do you not root for someone like that? And so it's the idea that, like the 7-year-old me, I believe we're all underdogs. And I believe that when I left my prior job that people rooted for me because we hope that when we're down, someone will root for us.

Tracy: Mhmm.

Tamron: And so that's how we talk about the show. I want to talk about the actual things we are talking about. Not what someone in an office says we should be talking about.

Tracy: Amen. Amen. I love that.

Audience: [clapping]

Tracy: So I'm looking at the time and we have --.

Tamron: Looking at my Gucci, it's about that time.

Tracy: Ooh! I --

Tamron: Name that song.

Tracy: Six bad broads flying in at nine. What is the song? No?

Audience: Big Tymers

Tracy: That's what I was singing!

Tamron: Didn't sound like that.

Tracy: Well that's -- [laughter] that's fair. This is my second drink. [laughter] But let the record show --.

Tamron: I love it. Let the record show --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] We were on the same page. [laughs].

Tamron: [crosstalk] She is DJ for life.

Tracy: Yes. So since we only have about five and a half minutes less -- left.

Tamron: Yes.

Tracy: Shout out to this bourbon. Well, we must talk about baby Moses.

Tamron: Yay.

Tracy: Adorable.

Tamron: Thank you.

Tracy: Gorgeous. I just, just --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] A fun guy.

Tracy: You know those little babies you just want to ne-ne-ne-ne-ne. Just kinda like eat 'em up. Tell me about his personality. Is he more like you or more like his dad?

Tamron: He I think is more like me. But he looks like his dad. I was just telling folks before we came in, the most, remark --I haven't felt like this magical motherness. Like, I don't feel like Beyoncé all of a sudden. But I'm a Virgo, some very analytical. And so I've watched him acquire agency. So the last couple of weeks, I would sit my son in his high chair and he would just go in. He's learned how to now resist. So he straightens his legs really tight --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Ohhh.

Tamron: And so you're like get -- get in.

Tracy: No, no, no!

Tamron: And he now knows he has free will.

Tracy: Mmmm.

Tamron: Which is an incredible thing to watch a human being acquire. Like he up until the last week had to do everything we said. And did. And now he has learned agency and free will. The only thing that keeps him from doing what he wants to do is I'm bigger.

Tracy: Yeah. [laughter].

Tamron: So we can just twist him and he has to go in. But you see it in his eyes. He's like, no, I want to stand. And that is such a phenomenal thing to watch a human being start making their own decisions.

Tracy: Mhmm.

Tamron: It's celestial for me. It's like holy -- like even more than looking at the sonogram videos of him in my stomach and my body transforming and all those things, like this kid now can show you he doesn't want to do something.

Tracy: He has opinions and thoughts --.

Tamron: It's fascinating!

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: I don't know where this is going to go with us. [laughter] I don't know if it means he's difficult, but it's amazing. It's amazing.

Tracy: Awww. So as a woman of a certain age --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Yeah.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Who does not have children yet. And may or may not. I don't know where -- I haven't talked to my mother about it yet.

Tamron: There's modern technology.

Tracy: Yeah.

Tamron: It can catch up with you.

Tracy: It costs money.

Tamron: Eh.

Tracy: Yeah, well --

Tamron: You'd be surprised. Like -- like we had Kenya Moore on, another house -- another Housewife.

Tracy: [crosstalk] I love the Housewives.

Tamron: [crosstalk] We did a entire show on IVF. And there are multiple agencies now that try to offset the costs. There are women now demanding that employers cover IVF. They cover --

Tracy: You can do that? You can just be like, you're going to cover this, Bob.

Tamron: [crosstalk] Well listen --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] And they're like, okay.

Tamron: Well, that's democracy. You and I would still be slaves if somebody didn't demand it.

Tracy: Fair.

Tamron: So, you know, you can demand anything in a democracy. And the best power you have is to vote it in. So, yes. I mean it's a part of legislative conversations that New Jersey is having as well. I know I went all slave deep on you, but I get it. [laughter].

Tracy: Hey, listen.

Tamron: But --.

Tracy: Sometimes you gotta go slave deep.

Tamron: Yeah, but no. They're working on legislation to challenge employers. So rather than, you know, women looking at each others and saying, well, you can afford it and you can't. Turning our conversation on employers and saying you can. You can change this. Don't turn us against each other, who can afford and who can't. Let's look at them and say, we are working women. And the things that you cover for men, extraordinary. You know, cover these things for us. So.

Tracy: Absolute -- well, there is an answer to the question I didn't even finish answering. [laughter] And I mean, I just learned something new.

Tamron: So you're gonna go through IVF now?

Tracy: Yes!

Tamron: Okay.

Tracy: I'm going to go to my boss and be like, listen here Jenna.

Tamron: Tamron Hall said --.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Tamron said --.

Tamron: [crosstalk] I would be a slave still! And I want my justice.

Tracy: You emancipate me and my womb --.

Tamron: Yes! [laughter]t

Tracy: And pay for this IVF. Yes.

Tamron: I knew you were my favorite podcasts for a reason.

Tracy: [laughs] Okay. So final question, wrapping up.

Tamron: Yeah.

Tracy: Unfortunately. I have so many other questions, but you made it through the 60 Minutes. Good job. I'm proud of you.

Audience: [cheering].

Tracy: What will you teach Baby Moses about work?

Tamron: It doesn't own you. You own you. And I think so much of our journey is seeking satisfaction of work for monetary reasons. And trust me, money does matter. Nothing feels better than paying all your bills on time.

Tracy: What does that feel like? Oh my god. [laughter]

Tamron: But it doesn't have to own you because in the end they're going to quit you or you have to quit them.

Tracy: I cannot think of a better stopping point. And look at that. Zero zero zero.

Tamron: Yay!

Tracy: [crosstalk] Is she a professional or not?! Ms. Tamron Hall, this has been an absolute joy.

Tamron: Thank you.

Tracy: Thank you for giving me some of your time and flying all the way out here to chit chat with me, I really appreciate it.

Tracy: Well, you're phenomenal.

Tracy: Oh my gosh!

Tamron: No you are.

Tracy: [crosstalk] Everybody tweet that. That just happened!

Tamron: [crosstalk] She is the real deal. She's the real deal.

Audience: [clapping]

Tracy: Where -- Thank you. Where can people find out more about your fund?

Tamron: The fund is on Safe Horizon. Go to safehorizon.com. It's the Tamron (Heart) Renate Fund. They do phenomenal work. It is the largest shelter in America helping women and families who are survivors. We don't call them victims -- survivors of domestic violence. If you think it is not happening to people in this room, we are kidding ourselves. There are people in this room right now, men, women, people who witnessed it in their childhoods. We're all impacted by it. So go to Safe Horizon. It is a celebration of accomplishments because so much has been done, but so much is in store. If you want also know about the show, tamronhallshow.com. It's been a trippy experience. It's been surreal. But I wouldn't be back on air if it weren't for people rooting for me. And I can't tell you enough, thank you. And people root for you because they want to be rooted for. So whatever your dreams are, whatever you're trying to achieve in this room, know that I am rooting for you as well. Thank you.

Audience: [cheering]

Tracy: [singing] Thank y'all so, so much for tuning in again. Going Through It is an original series. Thank you so much for tuning in to Going Through It once again. Going Through It is an original podcast created in partnership with MailChimp and Pineapple Street Studios. Executive Producers for Going Through It are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Max Linsky and Agerenesh Ashagre. Shout out to the producers of Going Through It. Our Lead Producer is Josh Gwynn, production by Jess Jupiter and Emmanuel Happsis with production support by JAnelle Anderson. Our Editor thee Leila Day, who is everyone and every single woman. Just ask Chaka Khan. Our music is by Daoud Anthony and our Engineer is Hannis Brown. Special thanks to Eleanor Kagan for being the alpha and the origin of this entire party. Stay in touch, please. I get lonely and I have anxiety and separation issues. So follow me on all the things @BrokeyMcPoverty. Tell your friends about the show. Make sure to rate and subscribe to Going Through It on Apple podcast, Spotify and wherever frees are podcast sold. And guess what? That's it. We out. I'm going home. Bye!